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Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

Current DYK

• ... that the ancient Greek game polis is one of the world's oldest strategy games?

@Piotrus, Generalissima, AirshipJungleman29, and TheSandDoctor: the Royal Game of Ur is 2,000 years older. One of the oldest is only true because so few survive, not because it was chronologicallmy close to the origin of these games. Fram (talk) 14:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

@Fram: would "...one of the world's oldest surviving strategy games" work better? TheSandDoctor ^Talk 14:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I went with "oldest known", which matches what's stated in the article. I'm not saying this solves the issues, but it's at least an incremental improvement. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:18, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Fram, the source makes it clear that race games, such as the Game of Ur, are not wholly strategy games, instead falling into the category of "race games", which combine luck and strategy. By contrast, games such as polis were entirely strategy driven. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

The article on Ur calls it a strategy game, and our article on strategy games also includes things like Warhammer, which are also partially decided by dice, or Contract bridge, which starts with dealing cards randomly. The entirely strategy driven section (things like chess and checkers) seems to be a very small part of the much larger group of strategy games as usually (and by us) described, and the correctness of a hook shouldn't depend on the definition given in one source but contradicted by others (and e.g. our articles). Fram (talk) 14:29, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

The source cited at Royal Game of Ur classifies games into categories like "racing" and "strategy", and classifies the Royal Game of Ur as a "racing" game (Botermans 2008, p. 713). "strategy" could be made more specific as "pure strategy", but the hook doesn't appear incorrect. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 15:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

"Oldest" is a superlative and so, unless there's a tie, there can only be one. The phrase "one of the oldest" is therefore weaseling and so is not a "definite fact" as required by DYK. The hook can be simplified without loss of information:

• ... that polis is an ancient Greek strategy game?

To make it a bit more interesting, I suggest:

• ... that polis is an ancient Greek strategy game which resembles checkers?

Next DYK

• ... that dance teacher Mary Ann Wells, despite being in the "I AM" movement, did not enforce rigid technical standards on her students?

@Xoak, SL93, and AirshipJungleman29: I have read the I AM article, and the bolded article, but I don't see this juxtaposition as being meaningful. "Despite her association with the I AM Temple, which held to strict vegetarian practices, Wells focused on cultivating her students' passion for dance rather than enforcing rigid technical standards." What has a religion or vegetarianism to do with rigid technical dance standards? Fram (talk) 09:18, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

The source says "Despite her mysticism, further reinforced by membership in the I AM temple, whose tenets included strict vegetarianism, Wells’s teaching was not in any way cultish. She was an inspirer rather than a stickler for technical finesse. Most important, she instilled in her students a deep love for dance in all its forms." The hook (and the article) have shortened this in a way that makes the "despite" misleading. —Kusma (talk) 09:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I did not promote this hook, so I cannot speak for its merits. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

@AirshipJungleman29: I don't follow your comment here... you've said "I did not promote this hook" with a link that appears to show that you did indeed promote it?!  — Amakuru (talk) 12:18, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Amakuru, I promoted the hook " ... that Mary Ann Wells, considered the most influential ballet teacher of the Pacific Northwest, mentored numerous talented dancers, including Gerald Arpino, who went on to co-found the Joffrey Ballet?", as can be seen from the diff I provided, not the hook that is currently in the queue. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Ah, apologies, I didn't read carefully enough. It seems that Theleekycauldron swapped the hook for another one at the admin checks phase, following discussion at WT:DYK. I'd suggest we pull this one and reopen the nom page as it appears the current hook is WP:SYNTH.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Amakuru For the original promoted hook, the theleekycauldron raised an issue about if the source could be used for the word "influential" in any form. I suggest going with the original hook and cutting that part out to say "... that Mary Ann Wells mentored numerous talented dancers, including Gerald Arpino, who went on to co-found the Joffrey Ballet?" SL93 (talk) 13:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the hook is better without "influential", but Arpino's co-founding of the Joffrey Ballet is not mentioned in the article or supported by the source. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I could have sworn I saw it, but now I see that it was said in Arpino's article. I'm going to add it to the article with a source now. SL93 (talk) 13:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Firefangledfeathers Now done. SL93 (talk) 13:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Unrelated, but I was wondering why the next DYK set only has 6 hooks. SL93 (talk) 13:42, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

three had to be pulled on sourcing issues; i was experimenting with not replacing them, seeing if that leads to better results on accuracy. unfortunately, didn't push hard enough on this hook... theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 15:12, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure if we should have an experiment like that without prior discussion. I see that I'm the only one who has brought it up so far, so maybe I'm in the wrong. SL93 (talk) 15:20, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: I think this is too controversial to be done boldly. I'm a bit too frazzled at the moment to do anything substantial in terms of reviewing, but some later hooks should be swapped in.--Launchballer 18:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

That's not something I could action before this queue goes live, because I'm very swamped today, but I'll keep that in mind. But honestly, if 4/9ths of the hooks in a set merit a pull, that means I'm looking at doing 13+ full reviews before a queue goes live. That's really a lot of work for each queue, and I don't know if it's productive. Maybe we say that there should be enough hooks to maintain MP balance, instead of requiring one-for-one replacement. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

You can't do that, Leeky. Wikipedia:Main Page/Tomorrow shows that the main page is unbalanced, with a serious amount of whitespace. Please promote some hooks into this set to restore balance. Schwede66 18:48, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Gah. I thought the balance would pan out a bit better; bad luck on the TFA and the setlength. I have a final exam today, though, so I don't think I really have the capacity to make any more promotions before the queue goes live. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

swapped in a bunch from queue 2, so now it should look okay. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:54, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Good. Thanks! Now turn Wikipedia off and concentrate on your exam. Others can sort out remaining issues. Schwede66 19:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Just as a point of order, I don't necessarily agree with the "you can't do that" comment, Schwede66... Yes, leaving the set with too few hooks is not a change in process that should be undertaken unilaterally by one editor, but on the other hand if Leaky really doesn't have the time to do the reviews for the new hooks swapped in, then firstly we can't force her to do that, and secondly it's certainly the lesser of two evils to just leave the remainder of the set unfilled rather than risk bringing in further hooks that might be problematic. Or you can even go back a year and pluck some hooks that already ran to fill the gaps... (this is what I do when a replacement is needed intraday, and I believe that's a process that exists).  — Amakuru (talk) 19:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I'll adjust the remain unbalance myself now. I agree that it's not Leeky's responsibility alone. Schwede66 19:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

There are currently eight hooks in that set, is this okay or should a ninth go in?--Launchballer 20:43, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

i had the same issue, but thought i was being too picky/out of step :) for what it's worth, i don't think the proposed replacement is very interesting, not that the current hook makes much sense. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 15:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

It does have an interestingness problem. From a non-knowledgeable reader's perspective: "Dance teacher taught a dance student who went on to found a dance company." Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:16, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I suggest to reopen it for a better hook. I feel like there has to be something, even if it isn't currently in the article. SL93 (talk) 15:19, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

pulled :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:54, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(June 14)

Monday's FL

(June 10, today)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

Today's POTD

• 10 June - at "is a shock wave that, unlike a normal shock, is inclined" the two links are the same.

Could perhaps pipe a link to "supersonic" ie Supersonic speed? JennyOz (talk) 15:00, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Duplicate link removed. I'm neutral on the supersonic link. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:04, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

General discussion

header broken in monobook

Resolved

 – Primary issue resolved, minor tweaks may be possible still. — xaosflux ^Talk 19:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T363597

2024-05-23 problems

Haven't been able to check this yet, possible WP:THURSDAY issue? In monobook, the page layout is broken now, see example - with the "welcome to wikipedia" being moved, a "," on a line by itself, bad font/size as well. — xaosflux ^Talk 09:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@Izno: just in case you are working on this via Wikipedia:Main Page/styles.css. — xaosflux ^Talk 09:35, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Fixed the comma break by moving the comma in to the h1 element; not seeing that causing breaks on vector or vector22. The h1 styling here seem to be the primary problem now. — xaosflux ^Talk 09:44, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Seems to be styles associated with the mw-heading1 div around that h1.. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:11, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm seeing the same issue - it looks very ugly. Thanks for looking into this! Modest Genius ^talk 11:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

The gap between Welcome to Wikipedia and "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit." is too big on Monobook. The line at the top cuts off the bottom of the P. I suggest you do "Welcome to" in smaller letters at the top and then just Wikipedia in large. "Welcome" looks a bit silly being that big.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:23, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

• Getting these reset may be enough:

body.page-Main_Page #mw-heading1
border-bottom: none;
margin-bottom: none;
font-size: 100%;

— xaosflux ^Talk 12:02, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

 Doing... font size fix first, waiting for sync. — xaosflux ^Talk 12:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done font size fixed in MediaWiki:Monobook.css; margin/border to do. — xaosflux ^Talk 12:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

 Doing... border/margin - waiting for sync. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done I'm not sure I love these CSS hacks though. Suggestions for improvement (here or upstream) are more than welcome. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:28, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Specifically I'm not liking that the parser is building the ID from the content and including "," in the element id now. (That is the one thing that will affect all skins). — xaosflux ^Talk 13:31, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Xaosflux Fixing this in Monobook.css was not appropriate (fixing it in WP:Main Page/styles.css is sufficient), nor was I believe moving the comma necessary. The relevant change is phab:T363597. It will be coming to the other skins Soon so we will need to fix it for all skins. Please remove the Monobook.css styles and revert your main page change so we can fix this correctly. Monobook being broken for a day or two is not a reason to... hack. Izno (talk) 16:44, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@Izno looks like phab:T363597 is going to be 2 weeks out? Do you have a fix for /styles.css ready to go, in which case certainly we can pull this out of monobook.css. Also, do you know what the "breaking" change # is for reference? — xaosflux ^Talk 17:23, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I do not have such a change. I'm not going to work on it until you revert yourself. It's a pain to sort things out when you're starting from the wrong state. Izno (talk) 17:29, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

And no, it is definitely live in Monobook. Izno (talk) 17:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@Izno OK, I've restored the broken version - we certainly shouldn't leave this broken for weeks though. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:32, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I will take care of it today. :) Izno (talk) 17:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Semantically, not sure about that comma - it is floating between the header and the end of a div that encompasses the header - certainly not a big deal other than the header handling breaking it there. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:37, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

This is fixed. Padding/margin between the top of the box and the welcome line looks off so that needs some investigation. I'll take a look later to see if that's just my imagination.

The comma is outside for the same reason you felt gross about it being on the inside earlier, except it matters for screen readers. IDK how the comma inside would even sound but it would probably be awkward. Izno (talk) 17:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I got here from T363597 – looks like this was resolved in this edit: [1]. Thanks for fixing it. Matma Rex talk 18:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)